Big Animals, Small Animals

This is a continuation of a conversation between His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and a guest, Dr. Christian Hauser, a psychiatrist, that took place in Stockholm in September 1975.

Dr. Hauser: Yes, I can see what you mean about Darwin.

Srila Prabhupada

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Such a rascal. A mudha, big ass. He did not know anything about the difference between dead matter and living spirit-he could not distinguish between the bodily covering and the soul within. Nor can the big modern asses that follow him. No perfect knowledge. Simply pretense. Cheating.

Certainly the soul the soul can go from one species of body to another, say from a monkey body to a human body, or vice versa. This understanding is nice. Not that the monkey body can change into a human body. That "understanding" is nonsense. Cheating.

Dr. Hauser: But some of this cheating, as you call it, must still have been of great use to mankind, because for all these centuries, not much has been known at all. So these scientists have been working according to whatever level of knowledge they have reached, and

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that is explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam: In the jungle, the small animals look up to a bigger animal as their leader. But he's still an animal. is he not?

Dr. Hauser: I don't really understand.

Srila Prabhupada: In the jungle or in the forest . . .

Dr. Hauser: Yes.

Srila Prabhupada: . . . a lion, for instance, is considered to be the king of the animals. So the lion may be a big animal. But after all, he's still an animal.

Dr. Hauser: So you mean the modern scientist is a big lion.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. A big rascal. That's it, A big rascal. A big rascal is lionized by small rascals. That's all.

Dr. Hauser: A big rascal seducing the small rascals.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that is the situation. Today everything is going on like that. Not only in science, but also in philosophy, religion, sociology, and politics. The big rascal and the small rascals. That's all.

Dr. Hauser: But you must evoke a lot of feelings when you say, for example, that Einstein was a very big rascal.

Srila Prabhupada: No. Einstein believed in God. Yes, he believed in God. So he was not a rascal. He was a sane man. He believed in God. He tried to find out about the brain of God, the unlimited intelligence of God. Many scientists believe in God, but unfortunately, the rascals have captured a prominent position.

The people who are defying God they're rascals, animals. Harav abhaktasya kuta mahad gunah. Unless one is God conscious, he's a rascal.

Maybe one's understanding of God is not perfect. But if he thinks God exists, that is intelligence. But the rascals, the two-legged animals, will never accept God or their own soul. Just as in Russia. A set of rascals. They do not believe in God.

Dr. Hauser: But the religious interest in Russia is there, is greater than in any other country in Europe. But not the leaders. The leaders are n

Srila Prabhupada: I speak of the leaders. Not only in Russia everywhere. The leaders are big animals, and they are happy only if they can make the ordinary people into small animals. The leaders the rascal leaders are spoiling the whole world situation. In India, also. In India, by nature eighty percent of the people are aloof from the four main sinful activities. But at the present moment the government, the leaders, are inducing the people to eat flesh, to take intoxicants, to gamble, and to have illicit sex.

Oh, yes because nowadays government means rascal. Take this Nixon. Once in power, he proved himself a rascal. And virtually all the government leaders government leader has come to mean rascal.

Dr. Hauser: Although Nixon says, in every television speech, that he is a believer of God.

Srila Prabhupada: That is simply politics.

Dr. Hauser: Yes.

Srila Prabhupada: He may be a God believer, but he has little use for God in his practical life. If a man doesn't use his practical life to awaken his dormant God consciousness, or Krsna consciousness, then he has simply wasted time.

Dr. Hauser: But in this country, for instance, if somebody's a Protestant, or, I mean, a Christian who goes to church, this is also of value, is it not? You don't try to convert them away from that?

Srila Prabhupada: No, no. We have no such process.

Dr. Hauser: Because your movement is extremely distinctive.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. But we don't try to convert anyone. For instance, a gentleman was asking, "Why are these young ladies dressing in Indian saris?" Now, I never instructed them, "You do that." But they are doing it of their own accord. I never canvassed people to become Hindus or some such thing. No. Our request is, "Just become God conscious." Any outward form of religion is all right. It doesn't matter provided the follower awakens his dormant God consciousness. Then that is first-class religion.

But suppose somebody is not awakened to the standard of God consciousness. Then he may follow some form of religion, but it is a waste of time. That is our only concern. We don't want official religiosity. In Sanskrit that is called dharma-dhvaji. Dhvaja means "flag." So, usually a man simply wants to have a flag: "I belong to this religion." That's all.

But if I ask him, "What do you actually know about religion?" he cannot explain. 'What is the nature of God?" He cannot explain. "Who are you beyond your body?" He cannot explain.

Simply he has a flag: "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." " I am Christian." And he will fight those who have some other kind of flag. He may be thinking, " I am a big man, a great soul." But in truth he is a small animal.

(To be continued.)