This is the continuation of a conversation that took place between His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and biochemist Thoudam Singh, Ph.D., in Bhubanesvara, India, on February 3, 1977.

Srila Prabhupada: So why is the government fostering this godless "evolution" science this dishonesty? Because the government leaders are themselves dishonest. They want simply to accumulate money by inducing people to work in their big industries. So they are cheating the people out of their birthright: to live the simple, natural life, to become God conscious, and at life's end, to go back home to God.

The government must make sure that people develop genuine God consciousness. That is the government leaders' actual business. They should promote genuine God consciousness, strict following of God's natural laws. Anything not genuine should be finished. Nothing bogus allowed. This is real government. This we are working for.

The government leaders' business is to see that the scientific or intellectual group is giving the students a sense of the transcendent Personality of Godhead, a sense of the divine.

Dr. Singh: Nowadays, the government leaders are seeing that the intellectuals impart a sense of all-pervasive matter, with no soul and no Supreme Soul. A sense of the demoniac, one might say. It's hard to imagine these demoniac types being convinced by godly arguments.

Srila Prabhupada: Never mind. We must push forward. Gradually the whole world will see that here are first-class gentlemen and here is first-class culture. Vedic, godly culture. Real culture. We must always remember, people are inclined to this God conscious culture. It is natural. And Lord Krsna wants it.

Why should we care about some rascal's objections? Do something to spread God conscious culture. It is Krsna's business. Print books. Travel all over the world. Challenge this godless government policy.

Challenge their intellectual hirelings. "Come on, rascal scientists. You have given yourself to spreading materialism and godlessness. We shall scientifically establish the existence of the spiritual self the soul and God." Karmany evadhikaras te ma phalesu. It doesn't matter whether they have a change of heart or not. We shall go on with our duty.

Dr. Singh: One scientist remarked what an astonishing wealth of information on the soul we can gain from just the second chapter of the Bhagavad-gita. It's unlimited.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Very good. He's understanding these things.

Dr. Singh: For instance, we've taken this one sentence from the Gita: nainam chindanti sastrani "The soul cannot be cut to pieces by any weapon." And we can very easily corroborate this statement from many modern scientific findings. Scientific data and the Gita agree.

Srila Prabhupada: Well, that is natural. Bhagavad-gita means "The Song of God," the Supreme Lord personally speaking. Who can be a greater authority? Hmm? Others may say whatever they like, but we knowHe is the greatest authority.

Dr. Singh: Another scientist and I gave a presentation at the University of Florida, to a class in physics. During our presentation, my colleague made a mathematical calculation demonstrating the probability of life arising from matter. The calculation showed that even if life were able to arise from dead matter which of course is an absurdity it would take something like ten to the 167 billion years.

So the physics professor once he saw the calculation written out, he said, "That's completely wrong." And he went on like that for a while.

Then my colleague said, "Let's see how this whole calculation works, step by step." And he showed, step by step, how the calculation makes sense mathematically-how, mathematically speaking, the theory that mere matter can produce life is rubbish; it completely falls apart.

My colleague went through the calculation very methodically, and finally the physics professor admitted to being wrong about life coming from matter.

Srila Prabhupada: This is a great success. Idam hi pumsas tapasah srutasya va . . . yad-uttamasloka-gunanuvarnanam:

"Greatly learned scholars have positively concluded that knowledge culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord." Nigama-kalpa-taror galitam phalam: these descriptions of the Lord are the real, ripened fruit of science.

Dr. Singh: My colleagues and I joke at the way so-called scientists call God consciousness antiscience or brainwashing. Actually, we're washing their dusty brains with genuine science.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, brainwashing in the best sense. Clearing away the godless dust and grime. These so-called scientists should be grateful. "Brainwashing"? If Krsna were present, He would have been brain-cutting. Such rascals.

In the Bhagavad-gita the Lord speaks very definitely: Jnanam te 'ham sa-vijnanam. . .jnatavyam avasisyate. "I shall now declare unto you in full this knowledge, both phenomenal and numinous. This being known, nothing further shall remain for you to know." Science means to comprehend and convey knowledge of the supreme scientist. That's all. Apart from that, who cares about your so-called scientific "view"?

Dr. Singh: Should we avoid the word view?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. In real science, everything is absolutely certain, because we receive our knowledge from the Absolute. And in our experimentation we corroborate and amplify this knowledge that we have received from the Absolute.

So we're not speaking of some "view." As soon as you say "view," this or that puny-minded rascal will come forward to give his "view." Simply confusion.

Another name for the Lord is Brahman-the supreme, all-embracing mind. Through the scriptures He has already given us all information. So how can there be some other "view"?

Dr. Singh: Still, the scientists want to have their own "view."

Srila Prabhupada: But we say, "You do not know. Here is the Lord's knowledge, the real knowledge. Your so-called knowledge is simply speculation. Your 'view' has no value."

(To be continued.)